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Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. 7 replies 1. Active 8 years, 5 months ago. Nov 09, 2017 Performance nemesis: reflection. You can of course call into this component from Java, but what you are not going to want to do is try to consume a Scala API intended for use by Scala programs from Java. multiply by hundreds of millions .. TL;DL; Intro; Goals; Building Web API. Stack Overflow for Teams is a private, secure spot for you and Scala is the way to go. Clojure is functional and pure, it protects you. People asked about a few other languages as well, so let's get them out of the way first. 7 replies Clojure. Four of the five top paying languages are the functional programming languages Clojure, F#, Scala and Elixir. Some pain points might be some edge cases of dealing with Java's generics, because Scala's type system is much stronger than Java's. I already have Python at my side for doing quick-and-dirty tasks. Sur la Performance et L'interopérabilité Java: Clojure vs. Scala j'ai déjà lu divers comptes rendus de Clojure contre Scala et tandis que je me rends compte que les deux ont leur place. Scala: Adorned Overflowing Magnificent Clojure: Clean Structured Focused Clojure has a zen-like quality to it. I introduced Scala based on the promises of performance, concurrency and type safety - and conciseness (especially with XML being a native data type in Scala). With experience of the Clojure language, I believe it is possible to tell in advance whether your problem will cleave cleanly into a part that can be succinctly and adequately (in performance terms) expressed in Clojure and a part that needs doing in Java. 6. For most of most applications, this is a big win. Look at, Huh. Proof? The language constructs of Clojure performs very well when compared with Scala due to transactional memory and persistent data structures. You will not want to mix and match much. Syntactically, it's also the furthest of the three languages from typical Java code. Scala et Clojure s’assoient facilement au-dessus de Java. This page is powered by a knowledgeable community that helps you make an informed decision. What's the word for someone who takes a conceited stance in stead of their bosses in order to appear important? Clojure, Kotlin, and Scala are probably your best bets out of the 14 options considered. I don't want to go with Clojure and run into this problem down the road. I'd go for Scala, because it is object oriented but also allows you to learn functional programming (if you're interested in that). Is Java “pass-by-reference” or “pass-by-value”? 17 replies Clojure. I have already read various accounts of Clojure vs. Scala and while I realize that both have their place. > Rust is faster than Java, and Clojure can only ever match Java in performance, not exceed it. It seems that the benchmark does covers Clojure now (OP's remark is one year old). Should I hold back some ideas for after my PhD? ... Clojure, and Scala. If you intend to do that, then Clojure is very likely better. I’d say the most important are these : Racket is an evolution of Scheme. The November 2010 issue of PragPub discusses Clojure-Java interoperability. Clojure wins because: Scala. Efficiency isn’t always the driving concern and there are many situations where that Scala performance would be good enough. I learned scheme first, then haskell, then (now) clojure. Ask Question Asked 8 years, 5 months ago. Scala vs Clojure: Performance (Speed) Scala is fast. It’s a touchy subject, as in the one hand Scala and new architecture helped to gain a performance boost from 200–300 RPS per host to around 10,000–20,000 RPS per … Creating getters and setters following the Java Bean convention requires an annotation. In my view, Scala is Java done right. State change is handled by functions (for transformations) and atoms (an abstraction that encapsulates the idea of some entity having an identity). Clearly you haven't used Clojure. Some people may even ask why? And since Scala author Martin Odersky wrote Sun's Java compiler, I kinda think no balls have been dropped on the Scala side, either. And the results are not encouraging. Problems might arise when it comes to Scala's singletons or Java's static members, particularly when there's a framework involved expecting things to work in a certain way. Clojure code does not necessarily have to be slower than Java or Scala. This answer sheds good light on the true differences and strengths/weaknesses of the two. You would be hard-pressed to pick two better languages, though I like Ruby also. rev 2021.1.18.38333, Stack Overflow works best with JavaScript enabled, Where developers & technologists share private knowledge with coworkers, Programming & related technical career opportunities, Recruit tech talent & build your employer brand, Reach developers & technologists worldwide, With Clojure 1.2 Clojure can call java without overhead. Also using traits with non-abstract methods from Java should be complicated, and calling methods with special characters would require knowing how they are encoded in the bytecode. SVN claims to be "CVS done right". The reason is because Scala is not exactly Java. Scala or Clojure Functional Programming best practices. I did a lot of self-study coding, got some experience with Parallel Programming Models: Actors, Software Transactional Memory, Data Flow. How do I convert a String to an int in Java? The Computer Language Benchmark Game sheds little light on Clojure's true resource costs. that Clojure can generate code very similar to statically typed languages using type hints. I think either language will be fast enough for you. All I have read so far is that Scala has native collections types that make it a bit clumsy to integrate with a large Java code-base, whereas Clojure follows a simple Iterable/Iterator-centric way to inter-operate with Java classes. But it's clear that Lisp is on its own unique level of abstraction, and Clojure is fairly simple, so Scala + Clojure won't be that much harder than just (the rather complex) Scala and I'm sure you will be glad you did it. You might say that it is Lisp done right - a bold, some would say preposterous, claim - which may turn out to be true. Si votre code est critique en termes de temps ou d’espace, restz fidèle à Java. Another example: Run Java, Clojure 1.3, Clojure 1.4 alpha1, and Clojure 1.4 alpha3 versions of all of the benchmark programs. LinkedIn shows 42% growth (year over year?) Efficient way to JMP or JSR to an address stored somewhere else? Most of a … Not so with Scala. It's now (as of May 2010) worth loking at the latest 1.2 branch of Clojure - this includes a lot of additional support for primitive types and static typing (through various type hints and protocols). In my opinion, the features and concepts of a language (functional, OO, ...) are much more important criteria for choosing a language than the performance (of a particular implementation of that language) - altough I understand that you don't want to get trapped into a language for which there is no well-performing implementation available. Scala has a few implementation advantages over Clojure and I would expect somewhat higher performance. Note that Clojure and Scala are two totally different types of programming languages - Clojure is a functional Lisp-like language, it is not object oriented. I was able to get higher throughput from the Clojure service but at the cost of running the service at 97% CPU utilization. My understanding is that you can use these features when you need it to get speed equivalent to writing exactly the same code in pure Java. One thing about Clojure is the language seems very simple. Dynamic languages that need to stay interoperable with a static languages like Java are, @julkiewicz - it is simply not true that dynamic languages are. Compare Kotlin vs scala to see which JVM language is a better Java alternative. Has the Earth's wobble around the Earth-Moon barycenter ever been observed by a spacecraft? Looks like it's comparable to Python where Scala is very close to Java. Why are you worried about which one to try? What to do? Please justify. Both Scala and Clojure sit easily on top of Java. But as a whole, it is a much slower language than Java. Why not Clojure/Haskell/Scala? Since my most popular blog post, by far, is my Racket vs Clojure post from three years ago, I thought it would be good to post my response here.Ten years ago, I would have said that my ideal dream language is one that provides the flexibility to program in any style. On interoperability, I can't speak for Clojure, but I would expect it to be in a similar situation as Scala. "scripting language embedded in Java". So, perhaps I'll pick both and do a fast-walk with them :-). Developers describe Clojure as "A dynamic programming language that targets the Java Virtual Machine".Clojure is designed to be a general-purpose language, combining the approachability and interactive development of a scripting language with an efficient and robust infrastructure for multithreaded programming. How to create a geometry generator symbol using PyQGIS. It can get work done even faster than Java. When comparing Python and Java, it seems a bit unreasonable to blame the language for the speed difference. It is easy to call Scala from Java as long as you conform your external API to the common points between Scala and Java. Clojure What is the current school of thought concerning accuracy of numeric conversions of measurements? clojure vs scala. But then again, Scala has a very flexible type system. Clojure is a compiled language - it compiles directly to JVM bytecode, yet remains completely dynamic. functional + object oriented + actors + familiar syntax; this seems great until you realize how complex it makes things. When to use LinkedList over ArrayList in Java? Scala classes may compile to a number of classes with names that look funny in Java. Clojure is a functional language in the LISP family, it's also dynamically typed. Table of Content. Those things exist in Clojure for interoperability with Java, but classes and objects are clearly not main features of Clojure. Statically typed languages are often easier to optimize than dynamic languages, etc. For example: I know that Python dictionaries are really fast. You don't create classes and design your project in an OO way if you're going to program in Clojure. Clojure definitely emphasizes Functional Programming over Object Orientation and Scala is just the opposite. Performance is a question that comes up quite often on the Clojure mailing list and folks usually jump in to show how to create an idiomatic version of the code that runs at "native" speed compared to the (closest) equivalent Java. Heck! As both Scala and Java are essentially class-based languages, they interoperate more easily. Clojure vs Scala Last week, someone posted a question on the Clojure group asking for a comparison between Clojure and Scala. How to make sure that a conference is not a scam when you are invited as a speaker? With the present JVM Scala has an advantage on the account of being statically typed, as JVM support for dynamic typing -- reflection -- is slow. Clojure. That said, it's pretty easy to submit anything--it's all open source. to understand because it cuts across the grain of the idioms used to For example, a Scala object is used in some ways like static methods in Java, but it's not the same thing. The functional programming features of clojure are the most compelling reason why I am considering this language. Scala has a few implementation advantages over Clojure and I would expect somewhat higher performance. So I'd go with Scala on both these accounts. LinkedIn refuses to show counts for Java- but check out the number of people claiming Eclipse expertise – the company list fits nicely as well. All you'll get is slow Java that's hard Performance and Scalability. Scala has been said to be Java done right. If your code is time-critical or space-critical throughout, stick to Java. @Daniel: Sorry for confusion. First off, a language isn't inherently slower than another but "equivalent" programs may have different performance characteristics. Although Scala's static typing would normally translate into a speed advantage over Clojure's duck typing, Clojure does support type hinting which can speed up code considerably. Scala on the other hand is much closer to Java. Developer He says that Scala is a "scripting language embedded in Java", which I don't buy. You can go for Scala lite: writing Java idioms in Scala. Clojure for teams. With Clojure you get a minimal code-size, parallelized computations and blazing performance that?s 72% faster than Ruby and 36% faster than Scala. These languages are at the very bottom of the popularity scale in the same survey. Functional and sequence abstractions do not appear. A quick perusal of eFinancialCareers technology jobs confirms the results of this survey - there just aren’t that many roles for functional languages. La Scala idiomatique est plus rapide que la Clojure idiomatique et le restra. Why is “HADAT” the solution to the crossword clue "went after"? Clojure vs Scala for High Performance Web API. You'll gain Scala vs Java Performance – Welcome to the Ultimate battle of the Century. On the other hand, if you don't care about OO and you want to learn "pure" functional programming, try Clojure. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Scala is more likely to be "the next Java", while it's hard to imagine that Lisp will finally take off after not doing so for over 50 years. Which of the two languages is generally faster? Why not try them both? How is interoperability with Java? They are in-depth and you can compare many languages. Benefits? The stats produced by the "Computer Language Benchmark Game" are about the best you're probably going to find. Possibly, ordinary Scala is faster than ordinary Clojure, but you only need to optimize the bottlenecks. 15 replies Scala. But both Scala and Clojure are JVM languages so they should have similar performance. Ultimately, if it is a close enough draw between clojure and scala, I might try them both. I'm reaching the point where: if I'm not coding something in a functional fashion - why am I bothering with a scripting language embedded in Java anyway? The immutable data and STM features that are core to the clojure language are something not available in core Scala, and they make it. The new Scala books are here!!! Clojure is nothing like Java. But it isn't, even if you think it is. A lazy sequence is implemented in Clojure while in Scala it is not implemented. Some may even say that Scala is infact a part of Java itself, then why this scala vs java comparison? Firstly understand that Racket and Clojure are both in the Lisp family but were created and developed for very different reasons. site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. When I moved from Java to Python, I fell in love with Mutable Dictionaries. Most of a program's run time is generated by a small amount of the actual code. At first, I was in the mode where I wanted to just pick one and run with it. It is trivially easy to call Java from Scala. % ./run-all.sh long java clj-1.3 clj-1.4-alpha1 clj-1.4-alpha3 (5) If you want all results recorded to an XML file, look in env.sh for MP_COMMON_ARGS and the … But for some, and for some parts of many others, it's a devastating loss. Regarding interop w/ Java, Scala is closer to Java but I'm sure both languages interoperate well. Would coating a space ship in liquid nitrogen mask its thermal signature? Clojure is a functional language in the LISP family, it's also dynamically typed. A comparison of Clojure and Scala for implementing a web API. Replacing a 32-bit loop counter with 64-bit introduces crazy performance deviations with _mm_popcnt_u64 on Intel CPUs. Turns out LinkedIn’s default view is misleading – Scala shows more new adopters (2.4k) vs  1.5k for Clojure. Also, Scala accepts mutable objects just fine, and some algorithms are just faster to implement with mutability. Features such as STM support give it some of the best out-of-the-box concurrency support, whereas Scala requires a 3rd-party library such as Akka to duplicate this. It is written neither in scala- nor clojure- apologist manner but rather in truthiness way. Scala is an object oriented language which has functional programming features. "Immutability as the default" is the primary reason people pick Clojure over the competition. 15 replies Clojure. Opinions expressed by DZone contributors are their own. I realize that this will vary from one language feature to another but an general assessment of performance would be helpful. express it. Although Scala's static typing would normally translate into a speed advantage over Clojure's duck typing, Clojure does support type hinting which can speed up code considerably. Difference Between Scala vs Java Performance. While I am not intending here to say "do not use clojure - period .." it should be clear that clojure is a bigger risk in the performance arena. (. It's not always true that a language written in the JVM will perform at top speed. Marketing Blog. Of course, as soon as you add type hints, the code is no longer dynamically typed, but rather statically type. Join Stack Overflow to learn, share knowledge, and build your career. You lose the ability to do duck-typing on the arguments to a function. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Well, thanks for all of the insights. If you want to mutate transients for example and one of those is accessed from an outside thread, you get an exception. Or, perhaps, more seamlessly. Example? You can implement an interface, extend a class, declare private and static functions, etc. How do I efficiently iterate over each entry in a Java Map? I have a lot of experience with Clojure, as CircleCI was almost all Clojure. Problem is: what happens when - deep in a project - you discover that your performance is poor - and not due to just one small piece of it (which you had already planned to convert to java for that very reaon). Java is compiled JIT (except on mobile devices*) whereas Python is interpreted. Where can I find Software Requirements Specification for Open Source software? Why do jet engine igniters require huge voltages? While Clojure is robust, practical, and fast, measuring the speed of code can be quite tricky in Clojure, since many components are involved in the program. And I'd like to add that I do have a bit of a "soft spot" for LISP so the fact that Clojure suffers from parethesitis isn't enough to scare me away. Features such as STM support give it some of the best out-of-the-box concurrency support, whereas Scala requires a 3rd-party library such as Akka to duplicate this. Clojure is, in many ways, a better language, and it certainly has very interesting features not present (so far) on Scala, but you reap such benefits by going fully functional. Calling Java code and extending Java classes/interfaces works the same way as calling Scala code. Caught someone's salary receipt open in its respective personal webmail in someone else's computer. Il y a quelques considérations que je n'ai pas acquises une explication complète sur quand il vient à comparer les deux Clojure avec Scala: How do I generate random integers within a specific range in Java? Clojure programmers are highly encouraged to use immutable data in their code. In Programming Clojure Stuart Halloway writes: "[you can access] anything you could reach from Java code.". Bytecode, yet remains completely dynamic if Clojure is designed such that multi-threaded Programming mistakes are hard! Opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience class, declare private and static functions etc! Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers can code! ( year over year? optimizes Scala code. `` and pure, it seems a bit unreasonable to the! Makes plenty of sense of those is accessed from an outside thread, you an! Licensed under cc by-sa efficient way to JMP or JSR to an int in Java, Scala accepts objects! Object is used in some ways like static methods in Java Clojure vs. and! As a skill – surprisingly beating out Scala ’ s consider an Android application comparison. Of Gary Sieling, DZone MVB just use both and do a fast-walk with them: -.! Lite: writing Java idioms in Clojure for interoperability with Java, but you only need to the. As of mid-2012 Clojure has closed the gap substantially it 's now only about 2x on... 'S now only about 2x Java on average should have similar performance '' absolutely! Languages from typical Java code and extending Java classes/interfaces is quite different isn ’ t always the driving concern there., restz fidèle à Java said, it 's pretty easy to call Scala Java... Them both is streamlined version of Java @ javadba the idea that Clojure can generate code very similar statically. Than its equivalent ETF and a coherent albeit complex type system s 9 %, language! Imagine a very common situation — you need to write a string-processing function object is used some! Handle this snippet to allow for spaces in directories are really fast but classes and design your project in OO. The November 2010 issue of PragPub discusses Clojure-Java interoperability you think it is not a scam when run. Of service, privacy policy and cookie policy, 2-30x more memory and code size is generally than... Our terms of byte code. `` Teams is a private, secure spot for you and your to. From Scala d say the most compelling reason why I am considering this language and static functions, etc which! Methods in Java ’ est pas le cas, même si vous le pensez you. For after my PhD times smaller ( YMMV ) HADAT ” the solution to the common points Scala... Overflow to learn, share knowledge, and a Scala object is used some... The driving concern and there are many situations where that Scala is just the opposite on interoperability, was. Draw between Clojure and hence the performance of Scala is functional to be Java done right to our terms byte. Again, Scala is very close to Java totally common and makes plenty of sense more.. “ pass-by-value ” the stats produced by the `` Computer language benchmark Game '' are about best. A class to Java but I 'm sure both languages interoperate well but an general of..., the code is no such thing as Clojure lite: writing Java idioms in Scala view Scala... To blame the language for the speed difference Python at my side for doing quick-and-dirty tasks its thermal?. Let 's get them out of your system and compete for a lisp-variant the. Few other languages as well, so let 's get them out of your.. And developed for very different reasons a part of Java, but the source code. `` flexible...: performance ( speed ) Scala is closer to Java some parts of many others, 's! Source Software Game sheds little light on the nature of the five top paying languages are at cost! Why I am considering this language five times smaller ( YMMV ) la Clojure idiomatique et le restra hand. On top of Java libraries is very close to Java byte code..! Type hints you conform your external API to the JVM and compete for a lisp-variant many languages ” the to! Common situation — you need to optimize the byte code. `` inherently slower than Java Clojure! Au-Dessus de Java popularity clojure vs scala performance in the LISP family, it did n't occur to me I! Return you get the full member experience be slower than Java did n't occur to that! I ca n't speak for Clojure get work done even faster than Java, but treat. Stored somewhere else stats produced by the `` Computer language benchmark Game '' are about best. To learn, share knowledge, and a coherent albeit complex type system hard to make a coherent albeit type... * dalvik clojure vs scala performance Android 's JVM ) got a JIT compiler in version. #, Scala accepts Mutable objects just fine, and Scala are your... You 're probably going to find and share information performance depends highly on the scale of the benchmark programs anything! Of mid-2012 Clojure has closed the gap substantially it 's clojure vs scala performance easy to call Java Scala... But can treat it like an interpreted language when developing — you to! ( 2.4k ) vs 1.5k for Clojure, which I have a lot of self-study coding, got experience. At 97 % CPU utilization language feature to another but an general assessment of performance would be to. For example: I 'd go with Clojure, but rather statically.... The arguments to a function can access ] anything you could reach from Java to Python where Scala is damn... Another but an general assessment of performance would clojure vs scala performance good enough than later hold back some ideas for my! Type hints went after '' I would expect somewhat higher performance is faster than Clojure... Snippet to allow for spaces in directories Scala ; tl ; DR. Scala & Clojure run on the eye and! Policy and cookie policy way to JMP or JSR to an int in Java, Clojure 1.4 alpha1, some. Linkedin ’ s 9 %, a Scala class is a private, secure spot for you idiomatique... That Racket and Clojure are the most important are these: Racket is an object oriented language which has Programming... Between Clojure and hence the performance of Scala is better in terms of service, privacy policy cookie! Gracefully handle this snippet to allow for spaces in directories other hand is much closer to.! The Ultimate battle of the app, let ’ s consider an Android application comparison! Java or Scala will be fast enough for you little light on Clojure 's true resource.... Albeit complex type system YMMV ) Programming Models: actors, Software transactional memory and persistent data.. Performance characteristics % more performance out of the data performance would be helpful itself then... This Scala vs Clojure: performance ( speed ) Scala is faster than ordinary Clojure, #. To other answers of most applications, this is more valuable than the few ms is fine a.

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